My gameplay versus Protoss has progressed to a completely unbearable state. For a while in gold I won approximately 80% of my ZvP games and when I got promoted to Platinum that only dropped slightly. But then I started meeting Protoss player with a seemingly unbeatable strategy: They do _nothing_!
At first I thought my problem was I was too passive and let them probe up too much so I set out to improve my harrasment. It works fine, but make no difference.
Right now most of my games goes something like this: I get 3 bases to their two. I get a nice ball of mutalisks and kill about 20 probes in one of the two bases before they get too many stalkers. Mean while I max out on 200/200 mostly roaches and save up around 5k in minerals and gas. When they move out they usually mostly have stalkers and we meet and my army dies to their limited loses and I max out again. My next wave of units dies for little more return than the first time around. So does my third max-out and then I am out of money and unable to hold back their attack anymore.
I’m a little baffled by this. I’m quite often ahead on upgrades as well and going ultras or broodlords seems to have no positive effect. The feeling I have is that I am way ahead before the first engagement, but when we meet we exchange units at the rate 120 to 30 or so.
I’ve been told I should have 5 bases and even more money. I don’t see the wisdom in that. 2 more bases (as opposed to just two more hatcheries) would either spread my drones thinner or leave less supply for army units. And even if it didn’t and just gave me more money, then I don’t see the point in being able to max out 5 times before dying compared to just 3.
I assume there is some trick I need to discover as pros are not quite this lost to the great Protoss deathball. I just wonder what the hell it is.
My nonplaying 5 cents...
ReplyDeleteIt seems that PvZ is balanced at top level. Certainly the games from the last 2 days show zerg killing protos in bunches.
Muta - ling - infestor seems popular.
baneling runin if they dont wall of at first.
roach-hydra are also popular.
Nydus network in the back of their base, also very popular.
I think zerglings are an underrated unit vs. protos.
Like you I dont really believe in the muta harass in midgame. Early midgame perhaps, but no later. Stalkers are simply too good in numbers vs. mutas. Oth. idra seems to do it very well...
How about some fungals to keep him from doing blink-micro, and a number of zerglings to engage the now grounded stalkers up close (as a supplement to your main roach force off course)?
ReplyDeleteFrom what I've seen you need may 9 broodlords with your army. That may make a difference. I'm not sure how effective ultralisks are.
ReplyDeleteFrom watching games, it seems to me that broodlords are a waste against blink stalkers and/or large stalkergroups in general.
ReplyDeleteIf broodlords are the answer, then getting the right mix is hard. As soon as your ground support dies, the broodlords follows extremly quickly after that.
ReplyDeleteRoach, hydra, ling, mutas, infestors, corrupters, banelings, all at once. That should do the trick. :)
ReplyDeleteMore to the point, if you have more types of units on the field (roach, lings, mutas), then you can deal more damage simply because they dont stand on top of eachother.
A move to win, that's what zeergs usually do to me. :(
ReplyDeleteBut in all seriusness it really all about not lossing youre third / preventing toss from taking his third and than maxing extreamly fast, i dunno i just have tons of trouble against zerg if i dont do a masive blow to him within the first 10-12 min i need to have klled his third off once or i am in serius trouble.
I struggled a lot until i started using infestors a little more heavily.
ReplyDeleteWhat I personally struggle with is defending against one of the 10 possible attacks that come from 2 base toss... early DTs with a warp prism is exceptionally hard for me, as they just drop 4 DTs and snipe important buildings and pick up again. Usually before I have any anti air when taking a quick 3rd. They can also 5 or 6 gate, 2 stargate void rays, or just macro up. Not preparing for any of the strategies can straight up cost you the game.
So fafner, did you improve vs protos?
ReplyDeleteNah, still the same problem. If not evenn worse....
ReplyDeleteWhen I play Zerg (playing Random right now), it always seems quite anxious, especially against a Protoss going for a deathball.
ReplyDeleteBeing solidly in Silver, my opponents (and myself) can't handle much multi-tasking, so harassment and catching the deathball out of position seems like the only option - as going toe-to-toe won't work.
In some ways I think it's worse as Terran - as they have a lesser capability to re-create a destroyed army - or "drone up".
How did you handle the Protoss deathball when you played as Terran?
I've just started playing (2-3 weeks) and I feel this. I'm Terran and I'm losing so hard to any non-terran. I had a game vs Toss tonight and it went down pretty much how you've described here - I multi-drop (1 medvac in behind his main, a larger force up the ramp to his expand), I kill some probes in the main and pull his army back to defend, kill a load of probes in the natural and run away. I repeated at his hidden expand with a single drop. But as you say, it has no effect - he still gets a huge deathball by 20 mins and kills me easily.
ReplyDelete